Navigation |
I'm over people who don't want to come out.Yes, yes.I'm sure Clay is going to get all kinds of praise for coming out and the ladies over at AfterEllen are all going, "yay Lindsay!".You know what?I don't care anymore.Don't get me wrong.No one wants the gates to open to a flood of celebrities coming out more than me, but i'm am so sick of playing this guessing game with people who just don't want to be out.I've always thought Clay was straight....really! It would have been one thing if he had pretended to be oblivious to how he comes across, but in interviews he's always been very self-aware and acknowledged that he wasn't very masculine.He was very cool about the whole thing, so I never got that closeted "oh no, i'm not like that" vibe from him.He out right said he was straight, so he didn't just tap dance around it.He lied.Him coming out yesterday.....I couldn't care less. Recently Michael wrote an article about the supposed new definition of being out.Call me old school, but i'm not about to start celebrating celebs for doing what this very site blasted Mika for doing just a year ago.The reason Michael wrote him off?......the tag line of the site......."because visibility matters".People like Lance Bass only come out after Perez Hilton has already kind of done it for them anyway, and then try to position themselves as the latest of the out and proud, and we're supposed to put them on a pedestal for that?What kind of message does that send?Only come out when it can't be a avoided any longer? I think people feed into and perpetuate this double standard when they get all pissy and overly defensive about whether, or not they're gay.Like, "how dare you even ask the question?!" as if it were the worst thing.To those who say it's a private matter and none our business anyway......you're absolutely right.It's also my right not to give a rat's ass about them when they do come out.If they want to stay closeted, let them.I don't care anymore, but you can't have it both ways.You can't be vague about your sexuality and be held up as a gay hero, so thanks Neil Patrick Harris, but no thanks.I'll save my praise for someone who deserves it.
Submitted by homoguy563 (1304 points) (205 posts) on Wed, 2008-09-24 13:37. |
User login |
There's a lot of truth to this
It's especially true when it's someone who has been putting out denials for a long time. I'm also a bit perturbed by the new custom of using People's cover page as the coming out vehicle, which makes it seem like a publicity stunt to me. In this day and age I think that this kind of coming out looks like a bid for tabloid page space that one might not get ordinarily. Especially since these coming outs tend to be happening after the hey day of the career is passed.
In many ways this reminds me of the "public cleansing" ....
It will be interesting how Aiken addresses all his previous denials and how he handles the media now that he's out. While some mock Ricki Martin, I think that he's always taken the best route as he never confirmed/denied and even charmed/shamed Barbara Walters when she brought it up during an interview at the peak of La Vida Loca. Much better than leaving something on the record that is not true or making gay seem like something negative.
Those of us who have been in the closet know what a horrible place it can be and I wish that everyone would come out if only to take away any of it's mystique/negative power. Unlike, race or gender, sexual orientation seems to fascinate people almost like drag did during Shakespearean times and there seems to be a feeding frenzy that I think is lead more by the press than the public.
I've never been a fan of Aiken's music or the way that he's handled the press, but maybe I would have done an even worse job if I were in his shoes. If I was not ready or desirous of sharing any of my life with fans or the press, maybe I'd pull a Chelsea Clinton or even a Ricki Martin with regard to dealing with what I am willing to share and what I am not. But again I've not been there.
I can see how many who have paved the way to make it easier to come out have little patience for "closet cases," but as long as they are not partaking in homophobia themselves, I think that there are worst things that are happening on earth so I have no need to demonize or idolize Aiken. It's a non-event but great if he feels good about it.
He can make it truly relevant relevant, such as by working with foundations that may help other young men in addressing some of the non-celebrity elements that made it hard for him to come out and maybe even taking on some faith-based haters.
Someone like the Aussie diver is entirely another story as I think that no matter how some try to reduce to his coming out as a slip of the tongue, my view is that he was brave to do so and to kick ass like he did. He deserves a parade as I think that he can be an inspiration to all. I am not saying that Clay deserves the guillotine, but his coming out is no more important than anyone else', especially those of us who were not corned into it by some pretty vicious undercurrents out there.
Good thread homoguy563 as I get your point and agree with almost all of it. I do think visibility matters, but how that visibility came to be and what is done with that may be more important than simply being out because there was no option. If only all people would respond to sleazy Perez Hilton types as the apparently quite hetero. did Milo Ventimiglia from Heroes did. Either The Advocate or out just had him running into Perez and telling him to put more ejaculate in the next pictures that he chooses to run. Gobs....
For currently closeted gays, I think that we can take the power away from these fools by either coming out, giving Ricki Martin style responses, or leading your lives without any response whatsoever no matter if you are warned that The Inquirer will run pictures of you blowing 10 guys as 100 Claymates wait backstage. The whole People magazine treatment and Clay's quotes about "truth" and kids are a little gag-worthy, but again, who knows if I would do better. I hope so, but no coming out parades for him, Lance, Jim "I am a gay American" Greevey. No disdain either unless they mess with me or I just happen not to like them irrespective of my desire to want to be supportive to the gays. Greevey is a sleaze in any sexual universe.
NPR was going to be outed, but with the exception of a couple of comments about his representing "normal," he seems to the beneficiary of out life yet did not need the publicity. The same applies to TR Knight, but I like these two mostly because both are handling their post-coming out lives as I think that they have helped shape how "gay" will hopefully soon not become something not requiring a public "cleansing" a la certain acts highlighted in the first paragraph.
Guillermo's Media Guillotine: Entertainment, journalism, politics, and popular culture.
http://springintoaction.typepad.com
You're Absolutely Right
Some take risks...
...and some don't.
Matthew Mitcham is great example of someone who just "came out" by not denying anything. When asked who he lived with he freely said he lived with his partner. Even that was potentially explosive (and caused much buzz). But he didn't want to lie about who he was in love with. There is no greater statement of pride than that.
Clay, not so much. He's only been hounded by people like Perez Hilton for ages. Giving confirmation of something everyone suspected and you yourself actively denied is not very exciting.
You're wrong about Ricky Martin though Guillermo. He has, in fact, actively denied being gay and insisted he's straight. That a handsome, famous and rich pop star was unable to find a wife/girlfriend with which to have children and instead hired a surrogate is of course completely normal and not at all suspicious. Guess his biological clock was ticking too loudly...
I've also always been enamored with the way John Barrowman has handled being out and being very public about his relationship.
This, for me, is the true defintion of "post gay". It's when you just admit to it without the need for a cover story in People. The much less dramatic, but much more meaningful statement is when you don't make active denials and don't hide. I think this is why everyone got so excited by Matthew Mitcham. There wasn't an apologetic or a self-congratulatory tone to his "coming out". He simply didn't cover up the truth about himself or the relationship that he's in, nor was he recanting years of lies about a false heterosexual image.
Some celebs have dug themselves into very deep holes through years of image management where they have actively tried to conceal and/or repudiate their homosexuality. That adds a kind of negative tone when they do come out because it makes it seem like it really is something shameful and they're seeking public approval and forgiveness. Like having been a secret drug addict for years and then coming forward to talk about how hard it has been.
That's why it's harder to gush when a coming out like this happens.
Not to be snarky, but seriously want to know about any info.
It could be very well be as I am dead wrong as I am only basing it in the highest profile interviews (esp. the aforementioned one with Baba Wawa years back) that I've seen and read as my recollection is that he'd taken a new-agish exit strategy without putting down being gay but neither confirming or denying it. Not a hero in any respect now (if he's gay) or were to come out next week. I was under the impression that he'd followed a different path than Aiken, but maybe I am wrong. I know I will be many more times today and I think that we agree on the main point regarding why none of these guys might deserve idolatry nor demonization.
Guillermo's Media Guillotine: Entertainment, journalism, politics, and popular culture.
http://springintoaction.typepad.com
Ricky denied it a long time ago
Now, this is going back quite a ways:
http://www.planetout.com/news/feature.html?sernum=185
It actually goes all the way back to when he was in the habit of "dating"women that lived thousands of miles from him. However he was still in his late 20's at that point so I'm less inclined to buy the "he was young and hadn't come to terms with being gay yet" notion.
Ricky built a whole persona around being a ladie's man. Although a cousin of mine from Miami who frequented clubs he was often at once whispered (whispered, as if armed thugs were going to come boiling out nowhere and beat us if we were overheard) that she suspected that Ricky was "bi" because he was sometimes a little too flirty with handsome men.
Now, in my opinion all of this adds up to Ricky projecting a false persona in a very Old Hollywood sort of way. He might certainly recant in the future, as Clay has, because he will find that it will be very difficult to raise his sons in an environment of concealment. If nothing else the boys themselves are likely to wonder why their "ladie's man" daddy couldn't provide an actual mother. The whole rent-a-womb conversation is awkward enough as it is, but at least when you're openly gay, or straight with an infertile wife, you have a reasonable explanation.
Who knows where it will go? But as you say Guillermo it's not cause for adoration or demonization. If Ricky really is gay, as we suspect he is, I'm not going to be heaping praise on him when he finally comes out. I won't be heaping scorn on him either. It will just be "okay, that's nice" kind of moment.
I get why people are skeptical
Something to think about, though, is the fact that when Clay first started denying it, he wasn't out to his mom or brother yet. I don't think it was just a case of him wanting more money. I guess people kind of thought, "Do you think we're stupid?" when he denied it, and I understand that. And now people are thinking "Did you think we didn't know?" But I think his denial had less to do with the people he was denying it to, and more to do with his personal acceptance. It's not about whether it was obvious to everybody else.
Like Darren Hayes has said, he couldn't be much of a support to the gay community if he was openly miserable and gay. He has said that he took anti-depressants for anxiety attacks. That may not directly have had something to do with his romantic orientation, but clearly he wasn't at a stage to be any kind of poster boy. Better to be open now, when he can be comfortable about himself. He's still not a poster boy, but at least he's saying that you can be gay and happy at the same time.
At the end of the day, he deserves no special treatment for being out. I totally agree with you on that. There is nothing ground breaking in his People interview. However, I hope he won't get criticism just because he came out.
My problem isn't with his
My problem isn't with his time in the closet. It's ALMOST understandable that one wouldn't sacrifice success and money to be out and open. My first obligation is to myself, and self-preservation is a more natural instinct than, well, any other. My problem is that Clay sucked his success dry and now conveniently wants to be accepted and celebrated by this community. If I chose coming out in the possible twilights of my young career, I surely wouldn't then come out proudly in People freakin magazine. He hasn't paid his dues. He hasn't earned his gay card. Time will tell if he wants to. Only then will I open my arms to him.
Agreed
Coming out after one's 15 minutes are over with isn't exactly a major, praiseworthy thing.
Also, I do question doing this on the cover of People as opposed to in the gay community media. To me it seems like he's trying to generate some publicity lest he be forgotten by an America with a short attention span. Remember that in the world of celebrity there is no such thing as "bad" publicity. Nowadays celebs benefit even from media coverage of their messy divorces, panty-less public appearances and drug addictions (or all three if you're Britney Spears). How much coverage did Britney's sister get as a pregant teenager? Michael Jackson, weirdo, plastic surgery addict, questionable parent and suspected child molestor can still somehow cause fans to gather at his court appearances!
So being gay? Probably not an issue. If anything it got Clay onto the cover of People at a point in his career where he probably could not have done so through any other means. What remains to be seen is what Clay does now that he's out. Michaelangelo is completely right in this.
He Never Struck
me as the kind of guy who was interested in being accepted by the mythical gay community. Clay will probably lead a very traditional life in many respects. Just a hunch.
Cheers
JBE
I have never
been caught up in the celebrity culture that is so prevalent in our society, so whether any movie, TV or music star ever comes out makes not difference to me personally. It would be nice if young gay people had more out gay people to admire, but I think it would be more useful if these "heros" were to come from every day life. For example, teachers, doctors or clergymen. Many celebrities have lives that are hardly admirable so maybe they are not the best role models around.
The thing that has always puzzled me is why people think a person's sexual life is interesting. If who I sleep with is the most interesting thing about me then I am in serious trouble. I think that is true of most people.
Cheers
JBE
Well Warren Beatty's sexual life is certainly interesting
But, being a gentleman, he's declined to discuss it (despite Lord Knows how many memoir offers.)
Being gay (or as in Warren's case being straight) isn't in and of itself a "sexual life" or account of same.
I'm gay, and so are you, but unless someone asks -- and we elect to tell -- no one knows anything at all about our sexual lives.
It's a messed up situation when...
we have LGBT community centers in every major city where ppl can go for support with coming out, but when it comes to a "celebrity", all we in the community can muster for him is cynicism and scorn. Anybody who has been in the closet knows that that first step out isn't easy or fun- and being famous doesn't help make anything easier. It just puts you under a bigger microscope at one of the most sensitive times of your life.
Clay Aiken came out b/c he wanted to set the right example for his kid- that being honest, even if its uncomfortable at times, is the only way to really be free. Maybe it took becoming a father for him to realize that, I don't know. But however he got here, the question now is what are we going to do: punish him b/c he didn't come out when we wanted him to, or show him the type of community that we demand other ppl show us.
Let's be the role models we keep expecting these celebrities to be and who knows- Maybe we'll influence more of them to free themselves.
Here's Dana Owens in the NYT Sunday magazine
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/magazine/05latifah-t.html?pagewanted=6&ref=magazine
One topic of persistent speculation on the Web is Queen Latifah’s sexuality, particularly a supposed romance with a female trainer. She has never addressed her relationships publicly and was in no mood to start. “I don’t have a problem discussing the topic of somebody being gay, but I do have a problem discussing my personal life,” she said. “You don’t get that part of me. Sorry. We’re not discussing it in our meetings, we’re not discussing it at Cover Girl. They don’t get it, he doesn’t get it” — she gestured upstairs, toward Compere’s office — “nobody gets that. I don’t feel like I need to share my personal life, and I don’t care if people think I’m gay or not. Assume whatever you want. You do it anyway.”
Translation: "I'm a dyke and don't you DARE mention it!"
scary mary
i personally wouldn't be brave enough to mention it to Queen Latifa! That gurl would beat my ass!!I mean look at her. Shew would Kick Your Ass!!!
I think i could handle clay though ;)
james
xxx