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From The Advocate March 25, 2008. Am I being too hard on Bette Midler? CertainlyReading The Advocate’s recent interview with Bette Midler reminded me of why we should never place anyone, much less a celebrity, on a pedestal. It seems like no one will ever be able to live up that idolatry.
http://advocate.com/issue_story_ektid52469.asp
Having said that, it’s hard to accept when long-time “gay icons” don’t openly embrace certain issues, like gay marriage, that we think should be no-brainers for them as we see them as our allies. At the risk of sounding like Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City, is it possible to safely lower a celebrity who one may have put up in a pedestal and continue to be a fan of theirs? Right now I am not so sure.
The following is an excerpt from an interview Midler gave in 2003 to Larry King, which I am including as it's referred to in the article but not included:
KING: I understand. It's a dilemma to you. Has she changed her mind since then? The interviewer seems to give her a pass, but I don’t see a significant shift, particularly when it comes to how she views gay men in general. After reading her article, I am not sure that there is a straight man or woman alive, who could meet the standard the she seems to be setting for gay men who want to have the right to marry. But why should any of this matter is what I would be asking any music/film fan who enjoys Bette’s work. I guess that it should not as she’s not done anything to hurt gay men and did not ask to put be put up in a pedestal. She’s not pulling a M. Gibson or I. Washington, but for now I need to see if the quality of her contribution (past and future) can offset this knee-jerk reaction to not want to hear from her for a while. It will be my loss but I am just not feeling her after reading the interview. Submitted by Guillermo Serri... (3139 points) (810 posts) on Tue, 2008-03-25 02:26. |
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Yes you are
In the new piece, the only standard I see her setting is that people take monogamy in a marriage and any children seriously. She mentions the problem of breakups, of divorces on kids being shuffled around.
That's too much to ask of anyone? I don't think so.
While I sometimes think Evan goes to far, he's on to something..
While I presented the piece from The Advocate with a huge disclaimer blaming myself for putting anyone on a pedestal, it seems that we at times can be so eager for acceptance that we sometimes might give straight people too much leeway in coming to "terms "with our needs. In said interview Midler states:
I did have to think it over. These are enormous, just gigantic seismic shifts. People don’t like change. People have to get used to it. They have to process it. They have to weigh it. You don’t just rush off and say, “I’m going to marry that guy.” You just don’t do it. A grown-up person analyzes it, hears it, processes it, and makes a decision. You come to a conclusion after you’ve thought it over, and you really -- I’m not so quick. I’m still singing songs from the fuckin ’40s! [Laughs] Give it a rest! Come on! I’m slow! [Both laugh]
To me she seems to be using a different standard for gay men. In the interview she prognosticates that gay commitments will likely be legalized (she never uses the word marriage), that all will be ok, and that we need to chill as change takes time. Did she wait for her "time?" If she had waited, she may have never worked as no one as different as Bette was is welcomed to the club. She got help along the way and we need it too.
I wonder if she had been asked whether it was ok for __________ (fill in the bank) to marry if she would have had to think it over or thought it was ok to even verbalize it. I am not Bette-bashing as I've already stated that she's not standing in anyone's way and as such any feelings about her should probably be based on on her talent. For better or worse, their personality and personal views are a part of why we like or dislike them. Susan Sarandon is an example of someone who I like so much due to talent and my perception of how she leads her life and how (correctly or incorrectly) I feel that she has our backs.
While I will likely never chose to marry, isn't the right to a human rights issue that someone like Bette should stand behind? Her interviewer in 2003 has been married so many times that there seems to be no official record of the number. As a straight man Larry King can do as he wants and the idiot, who usually throws softballs at his guests, actually gavbe Bette so many openings in 2003 to throw us a bone. In 2008 she's still about the kids and commitment, but the quality of a marriage and the right to be in one are different matters.
I may never understand what transexualism, but I will not ever say anything to prevent their rights to do what they feel they need to do medically and legally as I can empathize with someone who uses their lack of understanding to keep me out of the club. She's not a bad person, can be funny, is obviously talented but could she be yet another example of those who want to or simply forget their roots when they feel like they've gained entry into a club that she may have never gotten into without a little help from her friends?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=518130334
Boycott
Major gay magazines (except Instinct) around the world push the straight supremacist mindset. Cover after cover are of straight people. Gay people and issues are pushed to the back. Most of the straight people that appear on the cover don't give a d$mn about gay people. They just are promoting their products. If you replaced the word gay with cat the interview could be in Cat Fancy.
Out magazine ran a story earlier this month on gay truckers. You would expect that the primary focus would be on gay truckers instead it was on a straight male trucker who occassionally gets blow jobs from gay men. We learned about his family and everything he thought about. The two gay truckers were briefly talked about at the end of the story and only in a stereotypical dehumanized way i.e. drugs, sex, and anti-gay violence.
The reason PlanetOut media is in financial trouble is because they failed to culitivate a gay following. Instead of focusing on gay people and issues they focus on the stuff everyone writes about. Financial troubles will plague all gay magazines that follow in The Advocate and Out magazines footsteps.
There isn't too much wrong that Bette could do in my eyes......
Maybe I might be the oldest person on the planet or at least the oldest person on this site because I remember 'Bathhouse Bette' and just the fact, that she was legendary for performing 6 days a week with Barry Manilow in sold-out-every-night-shows in all kind of bathhouses for years. It seems that her career was launched with the help, word of mouth and the aid of gay men from her sold out bathhouse performances. She would witness gay men being raw, uninhibited and sometimes in their natural habitat probably every night. Her views are coming from a place of experience because the sad reality is that she was performing in these bathhouses in the haydays of bathhouses, you know when there was no talk about condoms or safe anything. This was a time when you would see a guy and he didn't have to be a Brad Pitt or Clive Owen type but he was either naked or with only a towel on in the steam room and 9 out of 10, all bets were off. Bathhouses were full of coupled men, single gay men and married and curious straight men and you have to know that they were always packed. During the gay sexual revolution, which would have been anytime from the 60's on up to the earlier 80's, there wasn't too much being said about partnerships, commitment cermonies and even marriage in the gay community and especially at bathhouses. I'm not taking up for her if she meant it any other way but I think many of her viewpoints are coming from what she actually experienced, witnessed and felt during the times of her shows at the bathhouses. She was a single gal who was embarking and building a serious following with the most loyal fanbase next to country music and that is gay men. You have to realize that all of her new best friends and associates weren't just giving her support and courage but they were giving her the lowdown on the gay experience. We all know that everyone's experience is totally different but it seems that she was caught in the middle with her thinking. If you hear something more than 3 times sometimes you feel there is truth in there. I am guilty of putting out several x-rated and over exaggerated stories while talking with my galpals. Most of the conversation was about guys and even sex on occasion. When you don't know, you just don't know and you should have seen some of the looks or the gasps that would last forever. I wasn't around during that era that era and I don't know Bette personally but I really don't think during her conversations while being a 'fag hag' and openly talking with her gay posse, there wasn't anyone talking with her about marrying Bobby or Jonnie. In my opinion I feel that they were conversing about how well endowed Bobby was or how sex with Jonnie would seem like watching paint dry. It used to be a big stereotype about gay men and meeting a new guy to be with everyday or every hour and believe it or not but it can actually happen. I'm not talking about guys that are hustling but I'm talking about having sex with different guys regularly and daily. I would love to say that I'm talking from experience but I'm not but I know guys that can leave their house or flat and end up hooking up at least 4 times before they get home. When I talk to these very active guys about settling down or getting married, now jus the priceless look on their faces but you have to hear the responses. You would have thought that I asked them to donate a kidney. I have to honestly admit that I'm a fan of marriage for everyone else but as far as I'm concern, it's something that I frown up on too. When I'm out with my mom and one of her friends attempt to slip in the questioning period that drives me crazy, that question of marriage always comes up. I spew out some answer that might make them never speak with me again or ask me about being married. I always feel so odd about answering questions about something, that unfortunately I don't have a chance at participating in anyways. I remember a straight friend asked me about how I really felt about gay dudes (as he would put it)tieing the knot. I told him in a polite way that if the right guy would come along and wanted to go for it, I was for it but I haven't really played house with anyone long enough to know if marriage is something I would like to do or be. Then he dropped a Bette on me because he though that was why gay men loved being gay was the fact that they didn't have to get tied down and could sleep around a bit. It's not just Bette that has that misconception about us but it seems that many people straight, confused and curious feel that gay men are extremely lucky for not getting involved with marriage. He actually put the hero syndrome and some unworthy guilt on me because it seems that I was his hero because I could get out of bed, slip on some clothes and because I'm gay I was able to network and sleep with a different guy all day. It seems that he thought that was the gay motto or gay way. Please don't strip Bette of her gay icon status because she is so worthy of it. She is also human and made an error of words or the interviewers just didn't realize her past and how she was the fag hag for many gay men.
Midler won't sing your song
I'm not for Gay Marriage either, well not in point. I think that the Gay Agenda failed us on that one. I blame the Defense of Marriage Act (1996), on trying to bite off too big a piece of the pie by demanding Marriage. If the debate had originally been over Civil Unions, today we would have Civil Unions and be discussing whether Civil Unions should have identical legal status to marriage.
The deal breaker is and always has been adoption. So why are we arguing about Gay Marriage when everybody knows it's about Gay Adoption. I am against Gay Marriage because it is a lie. I am for Civil Unions because that has proven in other countries to lead to full and equal rights, which I believe we would have by now but blew it.
We shouldn't be looking for Midler to fill Harvey Milks shoes. Ask for her opinion and move on. Brad Pitt and Angela Jolie are the self-appointed poster kids for Gay Marriage. What more do you want?