It seems that musicals exist as a form of escapism and an alternative voyeristic experience. But i'm interested in how 'gay' musica;s are, especially as they mainly revolve around heterosexual couples singing about romance, desire and lust. Feel free to explain why (if at all) you like musicals and what it is that is appealing to you about them. To find out more read Richard Dyer and his work on the camp musical.
I'll have to qualify my love for musicals and some gay men might find my qualification a bit appalling. My love for them has never really been about the show...the story. It's almost always been about the voices. I've never been a bit fan of many older musicals for just that reason(Ethel Merman, to me, is one of the most over-estimated chanteuse' of this century. I'd actually prefer a continuous stream of gangsta rap and heavy metal to anything that she's ever sung. And, I can tolerate Barbra and Liza at best.)
I love the showstoppers, the big, overblown closing numbers, those minutes when the voices soar to unexpected heights. I want to feel the music, and the big numbers enable interaction with melody. I'm not a big fan of the cheesy and contrived situations and the many other forced elements of musical theater, but I can sit happily through them all to get to songs like "this is the moment", "your eyes" or "A Step too Far". I walked out of the Lion King and Urinetown because neither provided me with anything of the sort. What's funny is that both, especially the latter, weren't all that contrived. Urinetown was a smart, farcical dark comedy. I just couldn't bear to listen to the sharp and discordant melodies that accompanied the singers.
Live theater works for me because what I hear is real. There's been no electronica to cover up a thin voice(right, Britney?) A good voice is just a good voice. And a great voice on stage is even greater. So...after all that, I suppose that it's not musicals I love but music. I tolerate musicals to get to the good stuff.
I also don't think every musical, should be a musical. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers for example: It just doesn't make sense that 7 manly he-men break out into song everytime there is a story to be told. Or maybe they've spent too many a winter trapped up in the mountains together...hmmm?
But Michealangelo did hit it on the head, it's all about the music. The songs from Sound of Music, for example, captures the seriousness of the time period, the romance of the Captain and Maria, and the splendor and beauty of the area in which it took place.
However, I must make note of a personal pet peeve. Musicals are inanimate creations and cannot be 'gay' with regard to the modern use of that word. 'Gay' in the modern use of the word means homosexual. Let's not reinforce the bad habit of the straight world referring to something being 'so gay'. All that does is reinforce the stereotype that all gays worship Judy Garland, Madonna, and Cher, lisp, and flail their wrists when they talk. I think we as gay men can better describe our thoughts without perpetuating the phrase or the stereotype.
I was 9 when I saw the Sound of Music for the first time. After I heard Christopher Plummer sing Edelweiss, there wasn't a doubt in my mind that I was a homo. God that man was sexy.
I think that musical theater is a venue that surely caters to gay men in many ways, but I'm not sure why the musical is considered to be a gay event. Weren't Gene Kelly and Sinatra some of the most idolized straight men of their times? Music and theater, for me, have always served as an escape. Wanting to escape from life surely isn't just a homosexual desire.
I can only guess because of the costumes, the over-the-top dramatic songs, etc.. Why did gays become infatuated with Judy Garland? Complete mystery to me.
I can think of only three musicals I have really liked. The Sound of Music, Oliver!, and Jesus Christ Superstar. My Fair Lady and Fiddler on The Roof were also pretty good along with Les Miserables and Rent. But I am certainly not obssessed by any of them and have never bothered to learn the songs by heart.
It's a fascination, or an association with gays, that I don't understand either. Some musicals are interesting or moving, some to me are over the top; it's really all over the place.
To me it's all most like saying gays like movies, or music. Well, many people do, as do many gays, but that does not make it particularly telling.
I don't know if it's because musicals were an outlet, or some code like (Friend of Dorothy) that drew a more passionate response in a more closeted time. I must admit I do not understand the fascination with Musicals or "divas". If I had to look to a figure made "larger than life" by media, I'd rather pick someone who'd accomplished something worthwhile for the community, or business, or his/her family, than someone famous for fashion or meanness. I guess I just don't get the entertainment factor of camp.
Not to stray off topic and I can create a new post if this gets interest, but what is with gay guys worshipping 'Divas' like Judy Garland, Cher, Madonna, Brittany, etc. I would think gay guys would like male singers more. I do. But hey..maybe I'm just strange.
like I am stereotyping, I find that gays that have a lot of female friends, and are not high on the "butch" scale are more likely to prefer female singers. I have always been very male oriented, had very few close female friends growing up and did not become infatuated with female singers like Madonna. I liked rock music (especially alternative) like U2, REM, Simple Minds, New Order, Depeche Mode, The Cure, etc.. For oldies I liked The Beatles and The Rolling Stones. I even liked Led Zeppelin!
Take a look at Steven Frank's excellent article on "What Does it Take to be a Gay Icon Today" for a very good discussion of the historical attraction of gay men to divas.
In it, Steven quotes John Epperson (the ever and always fabulous Lypsinka), who says:
“Gay men feel like outsiders in our heterosexual, patriarchal society,” Lypsinka told us. “Consciously or subconsciously they are often drawn to other people who are outsiders. This applies to female stars of all stripes, who are outside the realm of everyday life due to something that makes them unusual, whether it's their beauty or their sexuality or their vulnerability — qualities that come through on the screen, large or small.”
except I object to the words "gay men". I know a lot of gay men, including myself, who felt like outsiders growing up, but were never drawn to female stars. I was more likely to be drawn to jocks and male singers. I think if he had said many or a majority of gay men, it would be more accurate.
I think part of the facination for gay men is the camp aesthetic that musicals are drenched in. And i think 'we' relate to them as visual spectacles of entertainment and escapism. Camp borrows characteristics from femininity and so my explanation is that we are all women, no only kidding. Interesting stuff i think. Cheers for replies. x
It is pure and simple for me, it is a suspension of reality for two hours that entertain me. To paraphrase CHORUS LINE, "Everything on Broadway is beautiful." I have zero singing or dancing talent but in the theater I feel the power of the talent I am watching. I become part of the dream. Not all shows are perfect but the dream is.
Film Studies/ Gay Musicals
I'll have to qualify my
I'll have to qualify my love for musicals and some gay men might find my qualification a bit appalling. My love for them has never really been about the show...the story. It's almost always been about the voices. I've never been a bit fan of many older musicals for just that reason(Ethel Merman, to me, is one of the most over-estimated chanteuse' of this century. I'd actually prefer a continuous stream of gangsta rap and heavy metal to anything that she's ever sung. And, I can tolerate Barbra and Liza at best.)
I love the showstoppers, the big, overblown closing numbers, those minutes when the voices soar to unexpected heights. I want to feel the music, and the big numbers enable interaction with melody. I'm not a big fan of the cheesy and contrived situations and the many other forced elements of musical theater, but I can sit happily through them all to get to songs like "this is the moment", "your eyes" or "A Step too Far". I walked out of the Lion King and Urinetown because neither provided me with anything of the sort. What's funny is that both, especially the latter, weren't all that contrived. Urinetown was a smart, farcical dark comedy. I just couldn't bear to listen to the sharp and discordant melodies that accompanied the singers.
Live theater works for me because what I hear is real. There's been no electronica to cover up a thin voice(right, Britney?) A good voice is just a good voice. And a great voice on stage is even greater. So...after all that, I suppose that it's not musicals I love but music. I tolerate musicals to get to the good stuff.
I completely agree with you...
I also don't think every musical, should be a musical. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers for example: It just doesn't make sense that 7 manly he-men break out into song everytime there is a story to be told. Or maybe they've spent too many a winter trapped up in the mountains together...hmmm?
But Michealangelo did hit it on the head, it's all about the music. The songs from Sound of Music, for example, captures the seriousness of the time period, the romance of the Captain and Maria, and the splendor and beauty of the area in which it took place.
However, I must make note of a personal pet peeve. Musicals are inanimate creations and cannot be 'gay' with regard to the modern use of that word. 'Gay' in the modern use of the word means homosexual. Let's not reinforce the bad habit of the straight world referring to something being 'so gay'. All that does is reinforce the stereotype that all gays worship Judy Garland, Madonna, and Cher, lisp, and flail their wrists when they talk. I think we as gay men can better describe our thoughts without perpetuating the phrase or the stereotype.
Justin
I was 9 when I saw the
I was 9 when I saw the Sound of Music for the first time. After I heard Christopher Plummer sing Edelweiss, there wasn't a doubt in my mind that I was a homo. God that man was sexy.
I think that musical theater is a venue that surely caters to gay men in many ways, but I'm not sure why the musical is considered to be a gay event. Weren't Gene Kelly and Sinatra some of the most idolized straight men of their times? Music and theater, for me, have always served as an escape. Wanting to escape from life surely isn't just a homosexual desire.
God only knows why gays like musicals
I can only guess because of the costumes, the over-the-top dramatic songs, etc.. Why did gays become infatuated with Judy Garland? Complete mystery to me.
I can think of only three musicals I have really liked. The Sound of Music, Oliver!, and Jesus Christ Superstar. My Fair Lady and Fiddler on The Roof were also pretty good along with Les Miserables and Rent. But I am certainly not obssessed by any of them and have never bothered to learn the songs by heart.
Cheers
JBE
I just learned to play them...
Trust me...you don't want to be in the same county if I were to sing anything! :)
Justin
It's a fascination, or an
It's a fascination, or an association with gays, that I don't understand either. Some musicals are interesting or moving, some to me are over the top; it's really all over the place.
To me it's all most like saying gays like movies, or music. Well, many people do, as do many gays, but that does not make it particularly telling.
I don't know if it's because musicals were an outlet, or some code like (Friend of Dorothy) that drew a more passionate response in a more closeted time. I must admit I do not understand the fascination with Musicals or "divas". If I had to look to a figure made "larger than life" by media, I'd rather pick someone who'd accomplished something worthwhile for the community, or business, or his/her family, than someone famous for fashion or meanness. I guess I just don't get the entertainment factor of camp.
That brings up something else I don't understand...
Not to stray off topic and I can create a new post if this gets interest, but what is with gay guys worshipping 'Divas' like Judy Garland, Cher, Madonna, Brittany, etc. I would think gay guys would like male singers more. I do. But hey..maybe I'm just strange.
Thoughts?
Justin
At the risk of sounding
like I am stereotyping, I find that gays that have a lot of female friends, and are not high on the "butch" scale are more likely to prefer female singers. I have always been very male oriented, had very few close female friends growing up and did not become infatuated with female singers like Madonna. I liked rock music (especially alternative) like U2, REM, Simple Minds, New Order, Depeche Mode, The Cure, etc.. For oldies I liked The Beatles and The Rolling Stones. I even liked Led Zeppelin!
Cheers
JBE
Divas and Gay Icons
Take a look at Steven Frank's excellent article on "What Does it Take to be a Gay Icon Today" for a very good discussion of the historical attraction of gay men to divas.
In it, Steven quotes John Epperson (the ever and always fabulous Lypsinka), who says:
“Gay men feel like outsiders in our heterosexual, patriarchal society,” Lypsinka told us. “Consciously or subconsciously they are often drawn to other people who are outsiders. This applies to female stars of all stripes, who are outside the realm of everyday life due to something that makes them unusual, whether it's their beauty or their sexuality or their vulnerability — qualities that come through on the screen, large or small.”
Steven's entire article can be found here:
http://www.afterelton.com/people/2007/9/gayicons
Makes eminent sense
except I object to the words "gay men". I know a lot of gay men, including myself, who felt like outsiders growing up, but were never drawn to female stars. I was more likely to be drawn to jocks and male singers. I think if he had said many or a majority of gay men, it would be more accurate.
Cheers
JBE
I think
I am so gay
It is pure and simple for me, it is a suspension of reality for two hours that entertain me. To paraphrase CHORUS LINE, "Everything on Broadway is beautiful." I have zero singing or dancing talent but in the theater I feel the power of the talent I am watching. I become part of the dream. Not all shows are perfect but the dream is.
I just thinks its one of
I just thinks its one of those thingsthat we can't explain. You know, like when people ask us why we are gay, we can't explain it.