 by Lyle Masaki |
"Torchwood" gets a fourth season ... but will "Janto" fans tune out?
The big Torchwood news to come out of this weekend didn't come from Comic-Con. Instead, word spread that the hit sci-fi series had been picked up for a fourth season the day before its panel took place in front of cheering fans. So far, however, there's no word on who will be a part of the Torchwood team or how many episodes there will be this season (and there was no additional news at the panel.) And while Torchwood fans have mixed feelings towards the series after watching Children of Earth, if the Comic-Con panel is any indication fans aren't done with the series yet. There may have been expectations of Torchwood creator Russell T. Davies being greeted by pitchforks, judging by the accounts I've read, but the worst he faced at the Torchwood panel in San Diego were cries of "We want Ianto!" when Davies entered, as well as boos at the first mention of the late Torchwood teammate.
And even Davies seemed a little more mellow at the panel. At least, this wasn't the Davies who suggested irate viewers watch Supernatural instead. When an Ianto fan stepped up to the mic to bring up Davies' comments about internet fandom, Davies struck a more conciliatory tone, "I have nothing but respect for internet fandom: I understand that some things I have said have been taken the wrong way - and I understand that, and that's ok because sometimes people will always read things the way that makes sense to them. But I'm just not going to change my mind. I'm not." Meanwhile, after John Barrowman discussed how he was worried if viewers would still like Captain Jack after Children of Earth, the audience was asked if they still liked the cheeky Time Agent, invoking cheers and a cry of "Still hot!"
Of course, it wouldn't be a Torchwood panel without some misbehavior from Barrowman, who flirted with both Children of Earth director Euros Lyn and the panel's moderator, TV Guide's Rich Sands. Barrowman also gave a shout out to his partner, Scott Gill, seated in the audience when an audience member thanked him for being openly gay. TV critic Alan Sepinwall twittered that John came in for some ribbing himself.
As for the future developments, there was little revealed (not surprising, considering that the fourth season was only just ordered) save that we shouldn't be expecting a musical episode of Torchwood any time soon. Barrowman rejected the idea, saying a musical episode wouldn't live up to the series' tone while Davies said they wouldn't be able to top Buffy's musical episode.
If the positive reactions at the panel are any indication, it sounds like a fourth Torchwood season has a chance at finding its audience (although many were still reluctant to accept Ianto's death). How do you feel about the matter, will you tune in or will that depend on who will be on the team? Submitted by on Mon, 2009-07-27 09:17. |
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Long fourth season
I'll continue to watch a fourth season… if it goes back to a regular series format, and not a "special event" type of season.
Yes I'll miss Ianto, but I'm confident they'll introduce a new team for us to root for.
RE: Long fourth season
I'm right there with you on that...
and i'll continue to watch too...
i do however have a friend who is convinced and will bet money on the writers bringing Ianto back..
I can't wait to see the new team.. as long as the writers doesn't make their personality like Tosh, Owen or Ianto's!
Not in a million years
The show is dead to me!..
RTD is a hack and a moron for killing Ianto. Won't ever watch anything that I know he's part of. What a hack and an ego maniac.
Darling HE created Ianto -- he can do what he likes with him
Yes, I know Ianto's special to you. He's special to me too. And zillions of others. But RTD made him and he can break him.
Them's the rules -- difficult as they may be to deal with.
Tangential to this is the court case J.D. Salinger just won against someone who had the gall to write a sequel to Catcher in the Rye. Now I'm FAR from a Salinger fan, but I'm ever-so-glad the old man won his case. Holden Caulfield is his creation and no one else has the right to do anything with him whatsoever. In the same way we all may think Ianot is "ours," but the fact of the matter is he belongs to RTD.
Now if you've got an idea for a gay sc-fi show with heroes who never die I'd love to hear it.
And I hope it includes musical numbers a la Buffy
Gay characters aside
An excellent point and a crucial question
How many of us, truthfully, would have watched Torchwood through all three series without the gay element?
Honestly speaking I can say that I would not have. The writing has actually been average in most cases. In some cases (Random Shoes, Combat, From out of the Rain...) it's been pretty bloody bad!
There have been standout episodes (Captain Jack Harkness, Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang) but they have often relied on the gay factor for some, if not most, of their appeal.
So I think that those that are dismissive of the significance of the gay factor to the show are not appreciating that the show might not have lasted even this long without it!
Well, by the time I started
Well, by the time I started watching the New Who Torchwood didn't even exist. It hadn't been announced at that point, as the first DW series had just ended. I did like Jack, and there was still some of the gay element in his original run on it. So I can't say 100% that I would have watched if there wasn't some sort of gay element, as that had always been the very nature of the Captain Jack character. At the same time, I was going to watch Torchwood even when the first promo images came out of Captain Jack and Gwen Cooper. It was touted as the sexy answer to Doctor Who, and immediately I assumed that he was going to hook up with the lady with the black hair. So I did go into Torchwood not really expecting much in terms of gay, aside from a few shenanigans. I assumed Gwen snogging a chick posessed by an orgasm eating gas alien and Ianto's "that's harassment, sir" comment was all that we were going to get.
The issue here is that we were eventually given something that was fairly unexpected, in my opinion at least, and then it was snatched away for no real conceivable reason. The last thing I was really thinking when I started watching Torchwood is that Captain Jack Harkness, conman of the 51st century who was trying to get into everyone/anything's pants would end up in an actual relationship with another man (who happened to be an amazing, wonderful character in his own right). Yet he did, and the story had an additional element that kept viewers coming back to their TVs week after week. It suddenly wasn't just about aliens and sexytiemz but about people in strange circumstances finding each other amongst all the bizarre shit they experience every day. When the stories sucked, you could at least depend on the characters to hold up their end. You could look forward to their interactions, yes, between Jack and Ianto but also between the others as well. The draw for many people (in the beginning, at least), was the Doctor Who connection through Captain Jack Harkness, but I doubt that all of them stayed. I also doubt that everyone who watched the show came because of Doctor Who, and the gay relationship where both partners were on equal footing (by that I mean where they aren't effeminate stereotypes, or one was the man and the other the "woman") was a huge draw.
But I guess that because we enjoyed Ianto and his relationship with Jack, our opinions and criticisms are invalid, as are our feelings. We're only mad because we wanted Torchwood episodes to be hour long buttsex sessions. We're only pissed Ianto died because "he was hot". No one cares to look at what the angry people are actually saying and realize that the anger isn't solely because everyone wanted to see more of teh gei, but people actually liked and related to the characters, especially that of Ianto who was the most human and realistic of them all. I totally accept that the writers can do whatever they please with the character they created, but the fans are being treated with such derision and vitriol that it makes me sad. When all the bombast and fanfare is over and everyone else leaves, the fans who were there from the start are going to turn away as well because of how they've been treated. You still need the base for some things, and they feel betrayed.
Amest I bovveréd, forsooth? Looketh at my face. Looketh at my face. Ist this a bovveréd face thou seest before thee? My Liege, I be not bovveréd, forsooth.
Now let's get real
Were you actually given a Jack/Ianto romance by RTD? Or were you given your own projected desire to see a relationship between them? If you review the series, you will find that while towards the end Ianto might have begun to entertain the idea of a relationship but that Jack was never on board and neither would have characterize what they did have as anything more, at the moment, than self expression or exploration.
It seems to me that people are upset because they can no longer make a mountain out of an ant hill now that RTD has kicked over the mound.
RTD himself has said not only that Jack loved Ianto...
...but that his reason for killing Ianto off was to control Jack's next actions by taking away his "reason to live". While Rusty and the other writers of Torchwood may not have done the best job of showing that the relationship between Jack and Ianto was more than what the character of Owen Harper described as a "part time shag" they intended it to be more then that. People are upset for many reasons -- the over all poor quality of writing of Children of Earth, the deconstruction of Captain Jack Harkness, the death of Ianto Jones -- and when it comes to the handling of the relationship between Captain Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones people are upset that they were told they would see more development of the relationship and instead saw it destroyed. As for projecting, I didn't imagine Jack's kiss for Ianto in "End of Days", his telling Ianto first "I came back for you" in "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang" his telling Ianto in "To the Last Man" he loved people he never would've known if he'd stay where he was, or his kissing Ianto in that same scene. I'm upset for a variety of reasons and one of them is the needless destruction of a wonderful relationship.
http://www.saveiantojones.com/
"EXACTLY (smile) . . ."
...As for projecting, I didn't imagine Jack's kiss for Ianto in "End of Days", his telling Ianto first "I came back for you" in "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang" his telling Ianto in "To the Last Man" he loved people he never would've known if he'd stay where he was, or his kissing Ianto in that same scene. I'm upset for a variety of reasons and one of them is the needless destruction of a wonderful relationship."
If I may, for me, I am . . . DEVASTED.
Honestly, from the very first, there was a lack of trust that all would be well at the most and acceptably plausible at the least. I was disappointed that NONE of the practicalities of the previous series were evident in the Children of Earth. What was not seen? I am glad you ASKED . . .
The emotional connection between our Captain Jack and his Ianto was severely lacking. There were NO scenes of the closeness or a hint of closeness that the two HAD in Season Two and prior. An example would be in the ‘bloody beans’ scene. First, it is Ianto who initiates any flirtatious wantonness and not the other way round. The reverse is evident in past actions and boldly done without apologies by our Captain. Ianto, however in this series, does all ‘the initiating’: “ . . . Better make the best of it, then.” This is incredulous, especially when the previous seasons had Jack mending his ways and being determined to ‘do the relationship right’. None of the mouthwatering kisses, none of the melting hugs, none of the moaning growls were seen or heard throughout Children of Earth. Nothing. No ‘BLOODY BEANS’. The true Captain Jack Harkness would have been all OVER our Jones, especially WITH the earth at its end.
Another severe wrong: the death of Ianto Jones. Enough said.
Third is: the reaction to the death of Jones by the Captain, post resurrection. He PUTS an ‘affectionate, protective arm’ around who . . . GWEN COOPER WILLIAMS ! ! ! ! ! “WHAT THE . . .” There were no agonizing screams, no uncontrollable tears, no panicking holds to the body or crushing hugs to the supposed beloved Jones, just . . . just Gwen.
I can go on and go pointing out the ‘wrongs’ of this series; however towards the finale . . .
Despair was the ending. To have Gwen state that our Captain is ‘running away’, this is absolutely absurd. The unchanged Time Travel Agent Jack or this earth-bound, changed Torchwood III Captain Jack WOULD NEVER run from anyone or ‘thing’ in his life. To have the Captain AGREE to this by saying,“. . . Watch me.”, this is INSANE. What could the ‘MrTheWriters’ had been thinking? The ‘PTB’ know exactly what ‘they’ are doing. Yet, if ‘they’ give, by some stretch of the imagination, the running of and leadership over to ‘Gwenny’ in any TORCHWOODS to follow . . . There would be no words for this travesty.
Finally, the most devastating of all is the overall series itself. The total disregard for the fans and supporters of Torchwood is appalling. ‘MrTheWriters’ beguile us: we the audience, we the fans with false hope from past seasons concerning the openness in the Harkness-Jones relationship, hinting that this Season III would reveal more. What happens? We [some of us] are crushed by ‘MrTheWriters’. Suddenly a ‘BBC morality clause’ must be adhered to, fulfilled. Positive same-sex relationships are not to be ‘seen’. The ‘PTB’ of the series concoct a trite ending for our famed couple to appease the BBC. This literally affects the season. The entire ‘feel’ of the series changes, even in the manner in which Barrow and Lloyd portray their characters is . . . different. Gone is the chemistry between ‘Jack and Ianto’; gone is the relationship; gone is the series Torchwood III.
You, the ‘PTB’, brought on the demise of a powerful, well acted series, which has had profound effect on perceptions of same-sex relationships. Are you happy now, ‘MrTheWriters’ and the BBC ? ! ! ? Happy now ? ? ? ? I am sure that you are.
"TORCHED . . ."
I forgot to mention that in "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang" ...
It was Captain Jack Harkness that asked Ianto Jones out on a, "dinner, a movie," date. One of the few things to be said for CoE is that Ianto's sister talking about Jack and Ianto having been spotted out on date does say it did happen sometime. The writers wanted us to believe there was a relationship there, one Jack made an effort to be part of, but they couldn't be bothered to put much effort into writing the relationship.
http://www.saveiantojones.com/
I'm real..
agree
I got into Torchwood for flirty, reforming con-man Jack (1) and got a darker version of him which was okay because sometime the characters around him were interesting (2), sometime the story(3) & sometimes all 3 elements combined.
I actually didn't think about the "gay factor" I just liked the relationship as it was written/acted better then Gwack. I could see 51st cent Jack with the 21st cent Ianto. I would've loved to see the realtionship develop and, of course, actually SEE the relationship [like in Adam].
I survived character deaths before (Serenity, anyone?) so I know I'll survive Ianto's but it was a pointless, fan/previous-viewer-insulting death....though, to be fair it was very well acted.
I also watched many shows that "self-destructed" (really bad stories &/or charaters) or were sabatoged (new producers completely changes show's format even though that format was successful) I feel like RTD knew he was leaving and "took" the show with him and that's gonna be hard to forgive/forget.
UK shows have a short life span compared to US so I expected a 5 year run but got 2.25 instead so I feel cheated because of that too.
it's all about the writing
How many of us, truthfully, would have watched Torchwood through all three series without the gay element?
Honestly speaking I can say that I would not have. The writing has actually been average in most cases. In some cases (Random Shoes, Combat, From out of the Rain...) it's been pretty bloody bad!
There have been standout episodes (Captain Jack Harkness, Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang) but they have often relied on the gay factor for some, if not most, of their appeal.
So I think that those that are dismissive of the significance of the gay factor to the show are not appreciating that the show might not have lasted even this long without it!
You're right, in my opinion. It was never very strong. I only watched it for the gay elements. The "Captain Jack Harkness" episode was magnificent, but waiting that whole first season to get to it (after seeing the kiss clip in Youtube) was barely worth it.
I really felt like the short, contained season with one extensive and well-developed story was a great move, for several days. But then came day 4 and... it was clear it was all brilliant setup with nowhere to go. I will miss Ianto and the couple he and Jack were, but more important, as the authors here on AfterElton have discussed very well, the biggest problem was that the story arc was so poorly conceived. They fought so hard to get access to the alien... to tell it to go away or we'll all be very mad at it?
So, right, need another option in the poll. Will I come back? No, I'm done with this show. Because Ianto died? No, I'm done with it because it's not a good show. A charismatic gay lead actor playing the central omnisexual hero is great, but not enough.
The moment someone tells me
The moment someone tells me to "get over it", up go the hackles. Why is my reaction to be discounted and yours accepted? Are you, for accepting without question or pause the outcome of the travesty that was CoE, a better fan than I for voicing my displeasure? What makes your thoughts more valid than mine? And why do you think you have the right to tell me how to behave or feel or deal?
I'm pissed at the gross pandering to the loyal fanbase that pushed Torchwood not only onto the international stage, but into the big time on BBC1 just to toss us aside for the new 'fans' CoE caught. I'm pissed that what is being hailed as some as 'brilliant' was in fact rather hackneyed, unoriginal, and wasn't even really a miniseries about Torchwood, but baddies in the government. I'm pissed because, in one fell swoop, Mr. Davies without so much as a by your leave has ended something so innovative, so unique, so incredibly important and needed in this world of intolerance, namely Jack and Ianto, and left the heterosexual couple standing without a scratch or heartache. Whether it was RTD's intention to show the stereotype of Gay = Bad is actually illrelevant. Ianto being killed, and in such an insipid and unheroic manner, will be perceived as such by those less enlightened. And that's all it takes to perpetuate the idea that same sex couples all end in tragedy.
I will not watch Torchwood again, nor anything that Mr. Davies is involved with. See, that's me expressing my opinion, and it's an opinion that does matter to the BBC suits, 'cause it's my wallet that's doing the talking.
Oh, and one more thing - RTD may have penned the character at the start, but any credit and kudos for creating Ianto Jones belongs to Gareth David-Lloyd.
I'm pissed at the gross
I'm pissed at the gross pandering to the loyal fanbase that pushed Torchwood not only onto the international stage, but into the big time on BBC1 just to toss us aside for the new 'fans' CoE caught.
I know, but RTD is right about how he doesn't owe the fans anything. We certainly don't owe him our time, money or viewership just because he's RTD. I know I'm never going to become invested in his characters again; that way I won't care when he kills them off for shock value. I think that defeats the whole propose of killing characters to be shocking.
Oh, and one more thing - RTD may have penned the character at the start, but any credit and kudos for creating Ianto Jones belongs to Gareth David-Lloyd.
Me too. One of my favourite Ianto moments was at the end of his backstory in Fragments when Ianto cried as he walked away and Gareth had ad-libbed that (I believe one of the writers said that Ianto crying took that scene to a whole other level). I always thought that Gareth took what could have been/was (in the first series) a flat, poorly defined character (in the first series he had the least amount of screen time of all the characters) and really brought him to life.
Well "Darling",
RTD may have the right to do what he wants with his characters, but we also have the right to choose to tune out from a show if it and it's creaters' actions and callous disrespect seriously offends us.
We also have the right to express our displeasure to the BBC who ultimately control what happens with Torchwood.
And, this being sci-fi, where anything is possible (look at RTDs own record for this), we have the right to try to save one of the best ever bi/gay relationships on tv.
I'm in total agreement, well
Well said.
Personal insults straight
Might watch the first episode
Still will watch... with an exception.
No more for me!
I am a huge fan of the show, but I cannot imagine watching any more. I will continue to enjoy my DVDs of the first two seasons, but the Children Of The Earth mini-series was it for me.
It seemed like RTD burned the f'ing house down. He not only killed off one half of one of the most important components of the show (Janto), but also ended the whole thing with Jack doing something stupid and cruel (killing his grandson).
I really thought RTD did that to make it impossible for the studio to make more seasons. I thought he wanted to pretty much put his baby to rest, but apparently he still wants to make money off of the show even though he seemed to write its epitaph.
Maybe some people will still tune in, but I cannot imagine the hardcore Janto fans will.
P.S. I have not seen this video on AfterElton and I thought everyone might enjoy it. John Barrowman kisses David Tennant. Adorable! John then kisses RTD. Not so adorable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpxK_P2-OVM
Oh, your line about "Davies
Oh, your line about "Davies who suggested irate viewers watch Supernatural instead" isn't very honest. I've gone to the link you give and what he says is far funnier. And pretty gay.
But thanks for the Guardian link. Those comic-con panels must have been fun to watch.
François
---------------
http://gaycomicslist.free.fr
Way to go RTD, I knew you
Um... you missed the fact
What did you expect?
Did you think RTD was gonna burst into the room and start screaming at people?
RTD loves and appreciates his fans. He's also an artist. Artists aren't suppose to apologize to anyone about their art.
I wasn't at ComicCon but from what I've heard and read, he was the perfect gentleman. I don't see how that is in any way backing down.
Well, you don't see a great
LOL! You daft bat
You are funny Jason. You know as well as I do that it isn't 'his' show. It belongs to the BBC. If, for some strange reason Davies screwed up, they'd not renew his contract and give it to someone else in a heartbeat.
And because it's a BBC show, it also belongs to you and me (well, me at least because I know I pay my licence fee and while you probably do, too, I don't like to make assumptions). So any Brit here is entirely legitimate in their criticisms of the show because they paid for it. If you buy a balti and don't like it, do you still keep on going back to the same curry house? You've chomped down on that particular piece of twisted gristle that was Ianto's death and liked it. A lot of others didn't - and won't attempt to repeat the experience.
Torchwood anger
I agree with you Jason 100%. Had Comi-Con been what it is now after Season 6 of Buffy, Joss would have been lit on fire. Children of Earth was excellent. I watch the show because it is very entertaining, well acted, written, and I care about the characters. Ianto's death was heartbreaking, but was great storytelling. This leaves RTD with a blank canvas to start with Season 4. I can't wait to see what comes next from the brilliant world RTD has created.
RTD's 'conciliatory tone'
RTD's 'conciliatory tone' cracked me up. I can see the meeting at BBCAmercia: someone with a clue pulled RTD into a room and explained a few things among them, "Russel, now that you're an executive, you have to play ball. Play nice. If you antagonize the fan base, you'll have no shows to write!" I don't particularly believe his comments about the 'internet' fandom, as it wholly contradicts about a dozen previous, very unambiguous comments he's made before. The grudging, half-hearted delivery did him no service either.
But Barrowman is a charmer, and he's a fan favorite for sure. I'm even a great fan of Eve Myles (and yes, even her massively-Mary-Sue Gwen). But Day 4 and 5 of CoE was just... amazingly badly conceived and written, and the results are off-putting to say the least. Worst, they brought into high relief the things about Torchwood I don't like, rather than the things I do like about the show (because there are many good things). RTD cannot lose sight of the fact that TV is entertainment, and a continuous (or too severe) diet of bleak, depressing, nihlism will not retain, let alone gather, an American audience.
I won't watch "Torchwood"
I won't watch "Torchwood" any longer. The point is, it makes no sense getting emotionally involved with the characters if a new team is introduced. Thanks to RDT's way of thinking he's going to kill them off anyway, most likely before they've had a chance to develop. And I really don't need to see Jack getting hurt all over again and again until there's nothing left of the man. Ianto's death pushed him over the edge. Either the Doctor brings him back (or they find another solution to get them together) or it's over for me.
As to killing Ianto because of the plot: There are other ways of making the audience feel pain, loss, angst, whatever than killing of the characters one by one. That's not necessarily especially daring, it might also be a simple lack of imagination.
I'll wait for reviews
To be honest, I'm pretty turned off by Torcwhood now. It's only Gwen and Jack that are left. I've never made any secret of the fact that I despise Gwen and think she's massively overrated.
As for Jack, I'm sorry to say that he's lost his luster. The sad truth is that especially in CoE they've written as a character to hate, not to love. He was, at best, distant and ambivalent in his onscreen relationship with Ianto despte the latter's obvious devotion to him. Jack was also outrageously incompetent in CoE, and hasn't exactly been all that great in the rest of Torcwhood. I genuinely think he's better suited to being the companion of someone competent (i.e. the Doctor) rather than a leader in his own right. Yet despite his frequents bouts of idiocy, amorality and misuse of his boyfriend (who frankly died because of Jack's negligience) we're supposed to see Jack as a "hero".
So, to be honest series four would have to be much better written than series one through three if I'm to go back to watching it. They need to overpower my disgust at three seasons of deriviative plots, epic plot holes and killing off of characters.
Why should I watch series four? To see if they'll finally do away with Rhys and bring Jack and Gwen together at last?
Torchwood
I have no interest in New Torchwood
For me Torchwood has ended with CoE and Ianto's death. I wasn't very impressed with the writing to begin with, but I never much cared because I was invested enough in Ianto and Jack to overlook the plot holes. Some were so big that Myfanwy wouldn't have had any problems flying through them.
Some consider CoE a series of cheap shock effects that had to depend on character death(s) to up the drama, some say it was edgy and dark and couldn't have ended differently. Whatever the majority of the audience thinks, the show will lose a great proportion of its former viewership due to Ianto's death and Jack's subsequent character démontage.
New!Torchwood might find enough new fans to avoid a ratings disaster, but only until the next character, fans emotionally invest in, is randomly killed off.
New Torchwood
As mad as I am about Ianto not going to be on the 4th season I'll still watch as I like the show. It wont be the same without Ianto's little one-liners, but I'll give it a chance. But since Eve Myles is pregnant in real life will she becoming back to the show? I think I heard her saying she wants to take some time off after she has her baby, so if she doesn't come back they could have a whole new team with Jack and pretty much redo the whole show.
I'll watch the first episode, but . . .
. . . I don't see myself getting invested in other characters or story lines to watch beyond that. That first episode would pique my curiosity, but to me Jack and Gwen have been the least interesting characters on the series and have only interested me as far as how they interacted with the others. Now that the others are all gone, I could care less what happens to Gwen or Jack.
That first episode would have to be beyond damn good in order for me to watch beyond that. Considering the gaping plot holes RTD and company usually leave behind I very highly doubt they'll be able to get me interested in a series without Ianto.
The characters are the show...
I hate to break it to Russell, but the characters are the show. Kill the characters and you kill the show. In fact I'd say the characters are larger than the show itself. The relationship between Jack and Ianto was to me a symbol of hope. A sign that times have changed and that people aren't going to burn down BBC's headquarters just because there's a gay relationship on a sci-fi show. The relationship had gained huge acceptance on both sides of the Atlantic. Wasn't this what he wanted to acheieve? Janto was by all means groundbreaking but then all the sudden he got addicted to killing off main characters. There is nothing groundbreaking about that. "Lost" does it all the time."Serenity" saw the death of a few. Xena died in her last episode. Nothing original about it. Nope.
Now a gay relationship that would have lasted and evolved during to course of the show, not that would have been original. For goodness sake, they were just getting started!!!
I don't see where they intend to go with the show after this. Are they going to turn it into some angsty show where the characters just loose everything and everyone they cared about? We've already been down the dark and edgy and angsty road (season 1, remember?). It didn't work for the show. That wasn't entertainment.
Torchwood is about how the characters evolve, how their relationships evolve and mature. How they are there for each other and how they overcome difficulties. It's about hope and love. It's about the people. It's about silly office humour and aliens and stuff. Not about death. This is the show I love and cherish. For Torchwood's sake I hope this is just some prank from Russell's side... the whole "Ianto's not coming back"- bit, that is. How can you have a show where you've introduced so many ways to bring back characters to life (time vortex, resurrection gauntlets etc.) and then say "nope, this one stays dead"? Doesn't that go against the themes of the show itself?
Yes, Torchwood is Russell's baby. But if he means what he is saying, then he's essentially killing his baby. Fine, go ahead stab us in the back and twist the knife. Thanks for nothing, Russell.
Cherry / Torchwood_Operative
Exactly. That's what I find
Exactly. That's what I find the most irritating.
Torchwood very premise is the theme of death and resurrection, it's sci-fi and its main character is a man who can't die, who's an ex time-agent with a vortex manipulator and who's also very good friend with a certain Doctor who(!) owns a time machine.
There are nanogens able to cure and resurrect people, a rift that brings people back and forth from different places and eras, alternate universes and whatever your imagination can come up with.
Suzie, Owen, Rhys and many other random characters were brought back to life at least once.
But Ianto no, Ianto is the only one who must stay dead???
And the explanation for this is because Jack must suffer? Why FFS Jack must suffer?
But, you know, ok. Let him suffer then. Make me see that he's grieving and above all make me see him grieving for the next 10,000 years!
From now on I want to see an utterly miserable Jack who's thinking about his lost Ianto, who dreams about Ianto and can't get over him. Because he won't forget him, right?
Otherwise I'm not really going to buy the idea that there was love there in the first place.
Interview with RTD
FAB interview with the glorious RTD:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robertcolvile/9445447/Russell_T_Davies_Doctor_Who_interview_full_transcript/
My favorite bit:
RC: But going back to the family aspect, you invent these marvellous characters, then do horrible things to them…
RTD: You’ve got to be merciless. People will say ‘You love your characters’. But nobody loves their characters that much. If you really write, and you love them, you are the God of them and you can kill them with the click of a finger. It’s joyous to do so.
I've rarely encountered a writer who has more respect for his fans but also stays true to what being a writer/artist is about. The entire interview is fantastic. Too bad a lot of viewers won't be watching. You never know what'll happen... and that's what keeps me coming back.
I also find the HATE towards RTD fascinating. From a so-called community of people who crave/demand love, tolerance and equality (and equality should not even be an issue but that's another thing all together) would resort to HATE and LOATHING in their attemps to convey opinions.
That speaks volumes right there.
Ianto's death was the last straw...
I find it very difficult to envision any sort of future Torchwood series that will come close to the one I enjoyed for the first two seasons. RTD has made it quite clear that every character could die at any time. Excepting Jack, of course, who doesn't stay dead, and Gwen, who seems to have a free pass by virtue of being either RTD's favorite or inexplicably lucky.
The characters were what drew me to the show and allowed me to look past the plot holes and inconsistencies. Even in a sci-fi universe, more attention needs paid to accuracy. You have to get the real facts right so we can suspend our disbelief on the things you make up (witness Lois Habiba receiving Bridget Spears' classified clearance password on a Post-It note because things were a bit busy - every time Lois used that password, I laughed: so much for dramatic tension).
In the space of five episodes, RTD killed off Tosh, Owen and Ianto. He's also confirmed the team's pet pterodactyl is dead. Characters in their own way, the Hub is destroyed and the SUV stolen. So little of the original series is left. Why on Earth would anyone consider investing in a new set of characters? They are ALL red shirts. They'll just get to appear in more than one episode and have a more flexible wardrobe before they're offed.
RTD and Stephen King
These guys have many similarities as writers. Both come up with some amazing concepts, both can write very engaging stories, but neither one knows how to end a story.
Torchwood has been riddled by inconsistencies ("we don't know how the aliens are using the children to communicte" "we know how they are doing it and can do it ourselves" "the new sound doesn't hurt the aliens or the children but kills 'the link' " "the new sound can kill the aliens but leave all the children unharmed but one" "we will fight the aliens to the death" "we will knuckle under the first time someone is killed"). And RTD has relied on abrupt endings as often as Stephen King--some writer friends used to refer to these kinds of endings as "And then a plane fell on them."
RTD has too much power as a producer and no one has the guts or the ability to tell him that some of his stuff is crap. Reminds me of the artist who presented a commercially manufactured urinal as his own art--"it's good because I say it is."
At least Children of Earth saved the melodrama and overacting until the end. Some Torchwood eps have been completely ruined by the hamminess of Barrowman and Eve Myles and the nonsensical scripts.
Rocks fall, everyone dies
Rocks fall, everyone dies (unless they're wearing sparkly plot armor).
Amest I bovveréd, forsooth? Looketh at my face. Looketh at my face. Ist this a bovveréd face thou seest before thee? My Liege, I be not bovveréd, forsooth.
Why should I...?
Ianto was my favourite character. And even if we assume that there might be another, new, loveable and brilliant character just for me in the next season, why should I even bother liking them? The way this show goes, anyone but Gwen and Jack are dead meat walking, anyway.
No, Torchwood is dead without Ianto.
Might watch... won't be as emotionally invested
I may or may not watch. I'm just not going to care as much any more. I can't. The only reason I ever cared for the show was because of character interaction. That's what will keep me interested, even in a show with a confusing premise. (Evil beings trapped in video reels is handled by the same department that fights aliens? Why does every beat cop know about the existence of Torchwood?) With most of the gang gone, my reason for being invested is gone. Why bother getting attached to the new characters?
Not including Jack, there has been a 100% employee turnover since the first episode, and that is really a very high amount. If you're going to have a show with that level of turnover, you need a different kind of show. You need to focus more on character development while they're alive. Each character really should have their turn to shine, before they die. That gives viewers more of a sense of closure.
double post
"Torchwood" dont understand why he cant figh for him...
Forgot an option on your poll.
... Why bother?
Owen, Tosh, Ianto are dead. Any one joining the team will inevitably die. The one always surviving is Gwen. Jack cannot die.
What do you mean: predictable?
Sorry, but I won't watch season 4 without Ianto.
I'll be busy watching 'Supernatural', by the way... not only because Sam and Dean are beautiful guys (RTD, maybe it's just you who can watch a TV show only for the beautiful guys, dear.) but because they won't die before the end of the series...
the poll needed a fifth option...
there should have been the option of a straightforward NO I won't watch anymore.
placing the only negative with "Not without Ianto" was too limiting to me.
the 5-part series itself was a completion of Torchwood. i don't know if any tricks they can pull out of a hat will be able to revive or put the show into a new framework.
as an example, Dr Who has made changes of it's main characters over the years, especially with the regeneration of new Doctors because of his abilities and species history. connecting new partners with him has also been not only acceptable but also added more and different dimensions to the series. it worked.
YET, at no time has the entire premise of the show changed. it's evolved. the Torchwood: Children of Earth to me totally ended the show and not based just on Ianto's death. we weren't even given a chance to see what a new series version without Tosh and Owen would have worked, with or without new characters. i feel cheated.
if Davies is serious about the finality aspect of his works, then Torchwood should not be brought back.
otherwise, it was all just a cheap publicity stunt, and i don't want to be part of that.
perhaps they should have done a musical version...