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Amazon.com decides gay books are "adult". Gay customers say, "WTF?"
What does a classic gay novel like James Baldwin's Giovanni's Room have to do with gay porn? You'd think the answer would be pretty much "nothing." But if that's true, why would Amazon.com strip the sales ranks of it as well as almost all gay and lesbian books on their site — including Annie Proulx's Brokeback Mountain, Edmund White's A Boy's Own Story and 20s lesbian classic The Well of Loneliness — at the same time it's removing the sales rankings for adult novels? And it's not just fiction. The blog Meta Writer said that affected titles also include The Advocate College Guide for LGBT Students, Taking a Chance on God: Liberating Theology for Gays, Lesbians, and Their Lovers, Families, and Friends and The Dictionary of Homophobia: A Global History of Gay & Lesbian Experience. And indeed, not one of those books has its sales ranking listed. Asked "What's up with that?" by a number of authors, Amazon sent out a form response:
It's hard to know what's more disturbing: That they're removing gay and lesbian books from their search results and sales rankings in the first place, or that they're categorizing anything about our community and our lives in the stigmatized "adult" category even when there's nothing "adult" about it. I mean, in what universe are books like Vito Russo's Celluloid Closet, Randy Shilts' The Mayor of Castro Street: The Life and Times of Harvey Milk or Dan Savage's The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided to Go Get Pregnant adult books? I checked the gay young adult titles by AfterElton.com's Brent Hartinger, and they all still have their sales rankings. A few other YA titles I looked at didn't, however, including John Fox's The Boys on the Rock, Jim Grimsley's Dream Boy and, ironically, The Heart Has Its Reasons: Young Adult Literature with Gay/Lesbian/Queer Content, 1969-2004. Neither did Heather Has Two Mommies, which has got to be one of the most banned books in American history. Nice company you're in, Amazon. However, homophobes and wingnuts will be glad to know that Speechless: Silencing the Christians: How Liberals and Homosexual Activists are Outlawing Christianity (and Judaism) to Force Their Sexual Agenda on America was still being ranked. Amazon.com has not responded to a request for a comment by AfterElton.com. EDITOR's UPDATE: Here is the response Christie Keith just received from Amazon.com
A "glitch", huh? Um, how does this jive with Amazon's form letter above? It seems pretty damn clear that Amazon classified gay material as "adult" and are now trying to backtrack without admitting what they did. I do think the classification might have been inadvertent, but to call it a "glitch with our sales rank" without admitting responsibility is only compounding their mistake. Great to handle this P.R. disaster, Amazon! Submitted by on Sun, 2009-04-12 17:42. |
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They've been doing this at least since February
Idiotic
I would have never expected this from Amazon.com.
Until they change this idiotic practice, they have lost me as a customer.
BOYCOTT AMAZON!
Amazon & Towerload
Time to hit them with the PR machine too, Google-Bomb them. Make sure this catches the attention of the MSM.
http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/amazon-rank/
I haven't caught anything about this on HuffPo or CNN yet.
Since everyone is up in arms today, stop on over at Towerload and check the barely visible link in the upper right-hand corner of the big yellow box at the bottom of the main page. The one that reads "%&$@ barack obama".Except the swear-symbols I used replace the racially derogatory N-word that appears on the their site. [a friend tells me it links to a bunch of other sites that refers to our President by that word]. Highly inappropriate!The Towerload issue appears to have been corrected.
I signed the online
I signed the online petition and emailed customer service. I agree that boycotting is a good idea, but boycotting and being vocal about our outrage is better.
Petition is here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-protest-at-amazons-new-adult-policy
Here's a link to known censored books
meta_writer blog
oh hell no....
one disturbing effect can
one disturbing effect can be seen by going to amazon.com and doing a search for "homosexuality".
the first entry on the first page of results is "A Parents guide to preventing homosexuality". Also on that first page of results "jesus, the bible and homosexuality" "Can homosexuality be healed" "You Don't have to be Gay" and "Homosexuality and hte bible"
there are a few gay friendly books there too, but if they go the same way that others have, a search for homosexuality could end up giving only books like the above
Titles
Prevent Homos, please
Amazon search
Another thing I've seen frequently talked about around the interweb is that an Amazon search for "homosexuality" first gives "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality." Other results on the first page include: "You Don't Have to Be Gay: Hope and Freedom for Males Struggling With Homosexuality or for Those Who Know of Someone Who Is", and "Can Homosexuality Be Healed?"
I can't say what the results would have been before Amazon started trying to (inconsistently) protect their customers from "adult" material, but I do find these search results...interesting.
say whaaaat?
"Another thing I've seen frequently talked about around the interweb is that an Amazon search for "homosexuality" first gives "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality."
^ WHAAAAAAT? * goes to check for self* I can't believe this shit. who is in charge of amazon? is there a person who runs it or is behind it?
Censorship in the USA
This is a sad turn of events for the internet.
t is called censorship. Something this country used to stand firmly against. Because the internt is a new medium, it means that the bigots can impose their old rules as if nothing has happened since the 15th century. Censorship is one of the most powerful tools in the bigots' arsenal. The only response that could possibly effect them is a full on boycott of Amazon.
I would call for
User Group
I'm not sure I'm following your second suggestion. So, it would be OK to identify something as adult and exclude it from searches (i.e. censor it and/or prevent customers from thinking for themselves) as long as a user group - instead of Amazon owners or employees - judges and reviews the work? How is censorship by committee any better? Who determines who is a member of this evaluation group? Why should I trust their reviews anymore than anyone else? As long as a group of people disapproves of something, that product/author can be removed or treated differently than others at the site?
Am I misunderstanding you? Please explain.
Censorship User Groups
Yes, you do understand me., but I left it vague for that reason.
This is the main fear of the Bigot Elite. They have crunched the numbers, believe me. They know what, in fact, diminishes bigotry and therefore diminishes their evil ranks. My guess is that this is the result of one of two things.Censorship happens every day, as we know, on a personal basis. When I was a kid, my mom wouldn't allow me to watch Laugh In. Kind of a joke considering her potty mouth, I think she just used it as an excuse to put me to bed early.
But there are works of 'art' that I would like to keep from my children, like a fisting video for example. Can we first agree that there are in fact works that should be kept from children? If so, then what are the criteria for that type of ban.
I am not advocating a lynch mob, but a transparent process, like a wiki. Where I can read, discuss and contribute my opinion on a work, and hopefully help in forming some kind of criteria that fairly applies across all works of art, not just gay writings.
I do agree with Ann Frank, that people are born basically good. We learn bigotry. When ever we are able to shine a light on that, when we can openly discuss something like the merits of censoring a specific work, we have a chance to bring out people's better nature; to "un-learn" them.
A letter from the AFA can create a knee jerk reaction from TPTB in a corporation, from people who are generally removed from public opinions. Hard to say how often this has been used or been useful to their cause, it is insidious. I am beginning to believe that this is the main device used by groups like the AFA. We will never know how often these types of threats are made. Therefore, it is imperative that we stand against Amazon in this. It will show other corporations that a preemptive threat from the AFA is actually a heads up that they are doing the right thing.
It seems that corporations are especially susceptible to the later, these days. We need to find a way to make that type of threat from the wing nuts unattractive. Now may be the time an place
Individual Responsibility
But there are works of 'art' that I would like to keep from my children, like a fisting video for example. Can we first agree that there are in fact works that should be kept from children? If so, then what are the criteria for that type of ban.
I am not advocating a lynch mob, but a transparent process, like a wiki. Where I can read, discuss and contribute my opinion on a work, and hopefully help in forming some kind of criteria that fairly applies across all works of art, not just gay writings.
Absolutely there are things that are not appropriate for children, but it is the responsibility of parents to determine what those things are and when it becomes appropriate for their children to discuss, view or read them. It is not the right or responsibility of corporations or groups of faceless people on the internet. If a group of bigots banded together and succeeded in getting something labeled as worthy of censorship ("adult"), does that mean it is? By the same token, if something passed these criteria, would you let children watch/read it without verifying for yourself that it is indeed something you'd want them to be exposed to?
There are already forums to provide reviews at Amazon, which if used properly, can serve the function you suggested. My problem is not with the transparency of the process or who's establishing the criteria. I dislike the idea of treating materials differently (whether they are gay-themed or not) and taking the choice away from adults, parents, customers, etc. who have the right and responsibility to make those decisions for themselves.
their reply...
"There was a glitch with our sales rank feature that is currently being fixed."
^ HUH? this sales rank feature glitch only seemed to effect lgbt books though. that's a hell of a glitch.
it's ok to say if they were afraid of offending someone...and i would applaud them if they also said "we realize now that didn't help another group of people and we are sorry"
Yeah...
Crying Wolf?
Folks are up in arms, pitchforks in hand, and yet ignore the evidence that it only effected some LGBT books (Brian's books were not effected, for example) suggesting a glitch as Amazon claims rather than some vast anti-gay conspiracy.
I object to assumption by the article that adult equals porn.
Jezebel has a good article
Jezebel has a good article on this as well.
I think the fact that Ellen Degeneres's biography somehow falls under the category of "adult" material and Ron Jeremy's does not pretty much makes them all look like fools.
I mean, seriously. I get that the whole "adult material" thing was just a spur of the moment lie when they saw they were about to get busted for something they've been surreptitiously doing for months now. But couldn't they have paused for a single second before typing out that email and thought "hmmmm... I wonder if anyone will notice all the thousands of truly adult material that remains ranked?"
Ugh. Idiots. Homophobic, prejudiced, hateful idiots.
I heard about it this afternoon...
...and just had to confirm my worst fears: Graham Robb's The Discovery of France, a history of the amalgamation of French culture over the past 300 years, can still be found easily by typing in the title then not hitting "go" and still has a sales rank; but Robb's Strangers: Homosexual Love in the 19th Century, cannot be easily searched and does not display a sales rank. There's nothing "adult" about the latter book.
You can bet I'm going to let Amazon know what I think and that I will take my business elsewhere unless they change their practices.
"The History of Sexuality, Vol. 1" Michel Foucault
This is
CRAZY! Thats insane! What exaclty do they think makes these books "adult". A book ultimately becomes adult if it has gay content in it? Thats Bulls**t im sorry but thats not right on so many levels.
People fear what they don't understand.Thats why homophobes are so scared of gay people.
What's wrong with Amazon?
Glitch my ass
One of many egregious examples I've seen:
This book, Conception, Pregnancy & Birth: The Childbirth Bible for Today's Parents, still has a ranking. (Scroll down to the "Product Details" section. There, for most books including this one, you will find the "Amazon.com Sales Rank:" But this has been removed for most LGBT books, adult or not.)
But if you look at this one, The New Essential Guide to Lesbian Conception, Pregnancy, and Birth, it doesn't, anymore. I know for a fact that it had a ranking when I bought it recently, because I checked them carefully before making my purchase. This one had better reviews (and I believe a higher ranking) than the one above.
Trolling?
Ive read about this since this afternoon and this is absolutely crazy. What on earth would make this company do such a thing, especially since it has been so helpfull to find and buy LGBT content. As a customer this was very distressing, but at the same time it seem so arbitrary and the ridiculous responses from Amazon seem so reactionary, and then I find something like this interesting article:
http://tehdely.livejournal.com/88823.html
Could we be facing a trolling attack? I know this is just a theory, but its an interesting and plausible one. What exactly would be the point of something like this? What would anyone gain?
In any case, Amazon has a lot to answer, for either taking this action or letting something like this happen.
This seemed so weird from the very beginning.
Flagging
If the Amazon flagging proves to be true I would love, love, love for a mass of people to put the bible and any book that mentions Jesus on an adult only list. But we all know, no matter how many millions of people did that it will never affect the ranking of the bible at Amazon. It isn't about Jesus vs Gay. It is about decency and book banning. Something that Amazon could care less about. We need to show the heartless bitches that they should care. As book purveyors, they should care a lot: Books are the life blood of knowledge and love and that's the reason why evil forces have always tried to ban them.
Apparently not in Canada
Its exactly the same with
sick
“Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.”~ J.F.Kennedy
its really f***ed up when you type in homosexuality & you get books popping up saying A Parents guide to preventing homosexuality - why can't amazon censor that instead???
boycotting, petitoning & emailing amazon.
I've long heard rumors that
I've long heard rumors that Amazon's Bezos supports Socially Conservative Republican causes. This new development does not shock me at all.
I recommend that people shop for books at either TLABooks.com (which is gay-owned and -operated) or Queerbooks.com (which is the online site for Giovanni's Room, the longest-continually operated gay bookseller in the nation).
Now Steve's New & Improved with Andre Norton Award Finalist power for Vintage! And is a Lambda Literary Award Finalist for Wilde Stories 2008!
www.steveberman.com
I've sent them an email. Hopefully they come to their senses.
Here's the email I sent them.
"Hello,
RE: UNREASONABLE SEARCH RESULTS - WILL STOP SHOPPING AT AMAZON.COM OR AMAZON.CA
Please forward my message below to your management. Thank you.
I have recently noticed that a search of "homosexuality" yielded multiple listings of titles that SHOULD NOT be on the top of the list; titles such as "how to prevent homosexuality" and what bible says about homosexuality etc. Seriously? As a homosexual, I am gravely offended by this.
I sincerely hope you have been acting in the caution of merely political correctness and not by any other motives or hidden agenda. Nevertheless, I will not purchase from your company again until this is resolved.
One point worth noting is that if I do a search on "Christianity" on Amazon.com, reasonable and logical titles would come up; such as, "Christianity: An Outline of Salvation and the Christian Life", or "Christianity-The First Two Thousand Years".
Is there any reason why that's not the same for "homosexuality"? I'm pretty sure there are tons of excellent resources on homosexuality. I hope your company doesn't consider "homosexuality" as pornographical in nature or adult-related, because, as you know, that'd be plain ignorant.
Please feel free to respond if you wish.
[Name]
[Email address]"
Why are the gay and lesbian
got a point...
yeah, in dupont circle, there is a 'Books a million' and right by the 'gay/lesbian' section, there is all these erotic novels. hardcore erotica that is.
i wonder if it's only certain bookstores though. i know barnes and nobles (at least the ones i attend) has the gay/lesbian books halfway across the store from the erotic novels. the gay/lesbian books are by 'womens issues' and 'african american issues' and the erotic novels are by the travel maps. heh.
"Adult"........
"Adult Category"-isn't mean that all kind of books/movie(gay & not)have a lot of
erotic scence will been list to this category?So i don't understand why Amazon.com
(this kind a huge company)make this stupid decision.
I don't understand why John Barrowman Biograpraphic list into adult category.cause
i buy this book at Borders Bookstore (Malaysia)and it not label in adult section.
so i really feel confused why Amazon.com make this decision????????
It comes down to this...
Doubly distressing
First of all, Amazon does not sell porn to begin with, so the idea that a child could stumble upon a fisting video or a porn magazine is impossible. Are they going to drop rankings and star ratings on DVDs like Brokeback Mountain? Amazon makes a lot of money selling R-rated movies. Why the double standard with books? And censoring books on philosophy is just wrong on so many levels. I don't understand this development at all.
Does Amazon really have a big problem with kids buying theogical. medical, and political texts? Did Amazon actually sell a copy of Strangers: Homosexual Love in the 19th Century or The New Essential Guide to Lesbian Conception, Pregnancy, and Birth to a teenager and have to deal with subsequent parental complaints?
Really? I mean, really?
Amazon hacked?
So apparently, one should take this confession with a grain of salt so far, Amazon has been hacked over flagging post on Craiglist.
An infamous hacker claims he was trying to get back to the "hypocritical San Francisco gay community" and the flagging system in that site that flags his post about finding "chicks" to do heroin with, while the posts of all the post of "fat hairy gay men" looking for guys to do the same remain. So he decided to take on one of the most well known flagging systems in the internet with 10 lines of code. The douche.
If this is true, I cant believe what a negligent and insensitive way to handle this from the part of Amazon. Someone should loose their job over that, and while they are at it they should loose their flagging system all together and just leave the ability to review and nothing else.
They have yet to say anything about it and I wonder how they are going to get out of this one. The good thing about it is that by browsing trough all the coverage I found independant and gay owned on line sellers that I can buy content with.
inside or outside job?